If You're Not Holding Them Accountable, YOU'RE the Problem

Why is everyone afraid to sell? 0:00

Steve Shaw: We are back again, Dave. Can you believe it? We are still on the air. This is episode eighty-something. We've been around a long time. We're almost veterans at this.

Dave Rogers: Well, they say ten thousand tries, or ten thousand hours, and you become an expert. So I think we've got a few more to go before we get good at it.

Steve Shaw: That's it. Twenty thousand. We'll look back on this and say, "Wow, remember back in the day when we had episode eighty?"

Dave Rogers: Yeah. "Remember how bad we were?"

Steve Shaw: Exactly. What's on your mind today?

Dave Rogers: This isn't a rhetorical question, but why the hell does it seem like everyone is scared to sell, or to talk to customers? There's a fear out there, from managers, advisors, everybody. I don't know if it's fear or laziness. I just don't know. It's driving me nuts lately. It just seems like everybody's afraid to talk to customers or sell something, or try something new. That's another one.

Customers are clients, not friends 1:04

Steve Shaw: Or try something, exactly. I know it's human nature. Everybody wants to be friends, and I think too many people have fallen for the trap. People want to buy from people they like and trust. That is a true statement. We want to like you and trust you. But I'm not your friend. So many times people think we're friends, and our customers are not our friends. They're our customers, our clients, our guests. But they're not our friends.

I always tell people in class: look, I invite my friends over to my pool or my house for a barbecue. What percentage of your customers invite you to their house? There's always that one. And I never ask the female service advisors that, because it may be more for them than for the males. But I think everybody's in this friend mode. "I've got to be your friend. I want to be an influencer. I want to be liked." And we've given up on the idea that there's an art to selling, and that the sale starts at no. Everything else is just a presentation.

Present, or just take the order? 2:12

Steve Shaw: I was jogging today. Now that I'm out running again, I got five miles in today, and I've been putting a lot of miles in lately, so I've been pontificating about all of this. And I'm like, why do we have salespeople anymore? Why do we have service advisors? Because when someone says no, we run away faster than Wile E. Coyote. We are the Road Runner. Someone says no, and we hit the bricks. We're gone.

If you just sit there and present, you're just an order taker. A customer comes in and says, "I want an oil change," and you give them an oil change. Even if you get a menu close, you just took the guy's order. I know this doesn't make me popular, but all we did was take an order. That's 101. It's actually 201 in our classes. We took an order from a customer.

We didn't sell an extended warranty anything. The extended warranty just did what it was supposed to do. "I'm pounding my chest because I sold a four-thousand, five-thousand, ten-thousand-dollar engine." No, you didn't. You didn't do anything. You took an order and processed that order.

So why are people scared? If I had the answer to that question, I'd probably be a gazillionaire. But I think people are scared to get a no because they think people won't like them anymore. That's my first answer off the top of my head.

Pay plans, and giving up on RO merchandising 3:41

Dave Rogers: Yeah, I always go back and forth between that and just laziness. I've heard of a lot of stores in a lot of areas that pay their advisors a hundred percent commission. They get a draw; there's no salary component. I've never been a big fan of that. I think we ask them to do some things that aren't commissionable. If I only get paid commission on everything I write and I don't get anything else, then why would I help a new-car customer who needs an oil change, or somebody whose molding is loose? To me, it doesn't incentivize them to be helpful and treat everybody alike. On the other hand, I guess I'm getting what I pay for if they're satisfied with their salary and their commission on warranty work.

But look at some of these things, like the RO merchandising we've talked about. I've had a couple of guys say they're jumping all over it, a couple say they're thinking about it, and a couple who said, "Yeah, we started doing it," and then two weeks later, "Yeah, we've got to get back on that."

Why wouldn't you? Say you found a way to sell more alignments. You look in the history, they haven't done an alignment in a year, and you load it on the appointment or the pre-work order. You do something. And like your friend, you're at an eighty percent closing ratio now. Why would you just stop doing that? "Okay, I'm not going to sell any more alignments this month." I just don't get it.

I do understand that you try something new, it doesn't work out and you want to change the way you do it. But don't just give up and go back to what you were doing, because what you were doing wasn't working either. And the service advisors not wanting to sell stuff is another thing. It's mind-boggling to me. It's just mind-boggling.

It's not laziness, it's change 5:38

Steve Shaw: I don't necessarily think it's laziness, because the lazy man would put an alignment on every repair order and walk away. If I were a lazy service manager, I'd say, "Look, guys, there's going to be an alignment on every ticket. Sell it." And I'd walk away. I don't have to worry about anything.

I think the change aspect of something is huge. When we train, and I hate to use this word, I'm always selling. I'm convincing, I'm building a case, I'm trying to get you to think about change. I'm going to ask you at some point today to do something differently than the way you're doing it right now. My life depends on change in a store. And I know there are a lot of guys out there who call themselves agents of change, change this and change that, and I call that bullshit.

But change in people's lives is hard, and it's almost human nature to say no. I learned something recently, and I was sharing it with your group, about getting to no. I think it's a better way, because people are programmed to say no. So we ask the question backwards. "Would you like to go ahead and do this?" is looking for a yes. If I say, "Is there any reason you would not want to do this?" I'm getting a no, and I'm programmed to say no.

I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it as well. Take me outside of my bubble: "No, no, no. I'm good between Ridge Road and Main Street. Don't talk to me about going anywhere else." I'm a creature of habit too. But from a professional standpoint, we've got to figure out how to make more money. I'm always in yes mode about making more money. So I think change is the big deal.

Revenue walking out the door 7:35

Dave Rogers: Most dealerships just aren't realizing the revenue potential they should. They're not doing enough tire sales, not enough brake sales, not enough maintenance on these cars. I've told you some of the statistics: fifty percent of the Hondas in the Philadelphia area, fifty percent of the Hondas in the UIO, haven't been to a car dealership in ten years. That's terrible. We can flip the toggle between cars we sold and cars others sold, and there are a lot of dealers worse than ours. That doesn't make me feel better.

If they've never been to your store for anything, that's one issue in itself. But how many of those people used to bring the car to a dealership, and we chased them away? How many came to a dealership where we didn't even tell them about their brakes, and then they went down the street, the brakes started squeaking, they pulled into the Firestone, and guess what? Firestone got a new customer, because they got the brake job. That happens all the time. We don't feel like telling somebody something.

It's the lack of intensity and the lack of desire, even to close repair orders. I was talking to a service manager today, and they just dilly-dally on closing repair orders. I'm like, what are you doing? "I want to make sure they're perfect. I want to make sure of this and that." Close the goddamn RO. Nothing good happens with an open RO. Nothing. The only good RO is a closed RO. Unfortunately, that's the way the world works.

Comfortable pay and a lack of standards 9:17

Steve Shaw: That's it. Well, think about this, too. Why would I change if, hypothetically, I make a hundred grand a year? I'm doing all right. Now you want me to change, and I'm going to make what, one-ten, one-twenty-five? I don't know. I feel pretty good. I'm good right now. I think that's part of it. And look, I'm not advocating changing people's pay plans, but I do advocate paying people for what they're worth. We could go back to break-even analysis, because this goes into the fees, the diagnostic fee, everything.

Say I take over a store as a manager, or I show up as an advisor: "Dave, I need to make a hundred K to work here." And you go, "Okay, same. That's what we pay." I'm just using you as an example, but that's what we all do. "Okay, good. A hundred K. You're going to make it." Now I've got this new guy, he makes a hundred K, but he's not trying. I'm not saying bring him in at eighty. He's got to grow. But as an organization, or as an industry, it's laissez-faire: "Yeah, it'll get better. Let's try a little harder, maybe, maybe not." But guess what? The advisor's making a hundred, the service manager's making two, and everybody's good. Why would I change whatsoever?

Dave Rogers: It goes back to wanting everybody to like you. What we would do in the old days was flood the floor a little bit. We'd throw another advisor in. If they're all writing a hundred thousand dollars a month and I've got three advisors, the way I'm going to make more money is to hire another advisor, and maybe a tech or two. Now I've got four guys doing a hundred thousand dollars a month. It's the only way you're going to grow.

But no, the manager wants to be comfortable with his friends, keep his advisors happy and not have anybody leave. And I've seen it more recently than I've ever seen it before: managers or general managers who intentionally overpay their people and intentionally let them get away with murder, because they're looking for guys who are going to cover their ass when they're not at work.

A lot of these GMs are off on Friday. None of the owners, myself included, are in the stores on Saturday for the most part. We do a phone follow-up. The owners call the stores and see how they're doing and how many cars they're selling. But that GM could be home taking that phone call, giving himself a three-day weekend. I'm not saying any of ours do that. God forbid. But I've seen it recently: one reason they take care of their people and overpay is that they're looking for someone to cover their ass when they're not at work.

Steve Shaw: Well, listen, this will not make me a popular person either, but we have a lack of standards. Jamie said it the other day: "We have a standard to work here. You can work here or not. It's okay." I like the line Jamie used: "You've been promoted to customer." If we do not have a set of standards, and again, that can be me as a manager, but if I as a manager am not held to a standard by my general manager, then what does it matter? My GM doesn't care. "Sure, I'll look out for you. I want to be your buddy too, bro. You just keep paying me well, and I'll take care of you."

We would think the top guy would be the one setting the standard. But if the general manager is goofing off, so to speak, or taking Fridays off, he doesn't have a standard. Who's manning the ship? It always has to go back to the person with his name on the sign. I've had these conversations with dealers: "Look, if you want this to work, it's got to come from you." It doesn't make me popular with them. But generally, when I have that conversation Steve's way, I get the message across and I get the buy-in from the dealer principal. "I'm just an outside guy. You won't see me again for at least three months, maybe longer. It's got to come from you, the man or woman with your name on the sign. This is what's expected." And if it's not, then why would anybody do anything? Why would I try to grow my business?

Dave Rogers: It's true. You're absolutely right. We have these conversations with the owners. Sometimes it's after the fact and you find things out. Sometimes you have a hunch or you've heard rumors. But there's always a business reason not to address it. We've seen it for years. And if the manager is being nice to his people and overpaying them, for whatever reason, so they've got his back and cover his or her ass, then it shouldn't be a shock to me that my advisors are doing the same thing with their customers: "I don't want to sell anything. It's not worth the aggravation. I'm making enough money anyway. I don't believe in that fluid flush shit." That's what they're going to say.

You're probably right. They're getting overpaid, so they're not hungry. But it drives me crazy. That's not what this business is built on, and it's not how you should be wired. Listen, I don't want the eighties and nineties again. That's not what I'm striving for. But there needs to be a desire to sell people tires and brakes, keep them as customers and want them to service the car with you. When they don't care enough to sell, to me they don't care whether the customer comes back or not, which is a problem.

Accountability starts with the name on the sign 15:00

Steve Shaw: Yeah. I could give example after example, but my favorite is from when I very first started in the training and consulting world. I spoke to a guy who's a pretty high-powered dude. I love this guy. I was sitting in his office, and I said, "Sir, if I could be so bold," and I gave him my little speech. Later on we were in a meeting with all the stores, all the GMs and all the service managers, and he goes, "Guys, this young man came to me and told me I'm going to have to start being a dick."

And I'm like, that's not what I said. I just said you have to hold people accountable for the things you want. If you're going to pay me a lot of money to come into your store, and you want it done, then the man who signs my check has got to hold people accountable. If he doesn't, then I either say thank you, or there's no sense in me coming. I appreciate the big fat paycheck, but there's no reason to have me if you're not going to hold people accountable, because I can't make that happen for you. That's one of my stories.

Dave Rogers: I like that. Listen, it's true. You're right on. It's probably one of the biggest challenges out there: trying to manage managers. It was a lot easier for me to run a store with five or six managers. I could impose my will and sell them on ideas, and get everybody to buy in on whatever we were doing. It's hard to get thirty managers to buy in, because, as I've said before, they got to a certain level without me, a certain income level, job level, whatever it is. And they're like, "What the hell does this guy know? I don't need to listen to Dave." Now, there are some people who listen, and you get some satisfaction out of that. I guess I should be thrilled if even one does.

Walkarounds, a lube tech on the drive and triage 16:53

Steve Shaw: But listen, we can't even get people to do walkarounds. How long have you been talking about doing a walkaround in the drive? I told you, I gave up. We teach the one class for walkarounds. I gave up, because the manager will not make people do a walkaround. That's just how it is.

Dave Rogers: No, listen, we were talking to one of the stores today, and it's the same thing. They were talking about putting the service kit together, and I won't mention the name of the brand, the electronic multi-point, the electronic video, all of it in one program. And they said, "Well, we don't need the iPads to do the walkaround." I started laughing. Well, thank you for saving me the money instead of just signing up for it. Because if you weren't going to use it, I'm not going to tell you that you have to. It's just going to collect dust on someone's shelf. You're never going to do it. So why bother? Why are we going to bother with a walkaround?

Steve Shaw: That's not to say don't call me. It just means be ready to hold your staff accountable. What I tell people now is that we do the service tech on the drive. We'll put a lube tech on the drive to do underhood inspections. It's like RO marketing, but now I've got a kid looking at the car with the guy on the drive, and the kid is just like, "This failed, this failed, this failed." And then we're selling commodities like they're going out of style.

The advisor could do that. Literally, the advisor could. But they won't. So I just gave up. I'm not going to beat up one more advisor to walk around a car. I've failed at that for however many years of my life, fifty-six now. I'm not going to teach an advisor to walk around. I'm going to take a lube guy, stick him in the drive and pay him to sell commodities. And we sell more commodities than you ever thought about.

But: "No, Steve, we can't do that." There's the no again. "My lube guy's got to be back in the shop." Why can't he be standing here taking this car? "Nope, nope, nope." It's crazy shit.

Dave Rogers: I was talking to mostly Mercedes-Benz guys, and you have these CTEs, or CDTEs, whatever it is, these troubleshooting techs the factory brainwashed us into having. They're basically salaried, and they barely turn any hours. The mindset is that they take the job that comes in and hand it to a technician. He struggles, he can't do anything for two days, it buries him, and then they grab it and give it to the CTE, the expert.

And I'm like, well, why don't you do it the other way? Maybe the foreman and the diagnostic tech should look at the car and say, "Hey, it's a fuel pump," and then give it to the kid and say, "Here, put the fuel pump in. When you're done, I'll check it, and I'll help you program the computer," as opposed to letting the kid struggle for two days because he doesn't have the skills to diagnose the fuel pump. And he's like, "Well, the factory has this." I said, "I don't care what the factory has you doing. You're doing it ass-backwards."

You complain that you have unapplied labor and downtime, and you've got these kids. But who's teaching the kid how to diagnose? Letting him struggle for two days on a car isn't the answer. If you have the technology, the tools and the people to at least put him on the right path, help him out.

Listen, there might be some A techs in the shop you don't have to do that with. There might be some B techs you have to help out a little bit. But why not do a triage process, knowing your team? Because right now a lot of stores have a bunch of young techs who might not know, and all they're doing is waiting to see how much money they can make flat rate before they tell you they don't want to do this job. They're never going to go flat rate if they're struggling and turning twenty hours a week. But maybe they could make forty hours if you diagnosed the cars for them. "Nope, can't do it." That's crazy.

Steve Shaw: "Nope, can't do it." All right, you've got to wrap us up. Give us a GM tip of the day.

Dave Rogers: Listen, GM tip of the day: maybe send us an email or a text message and let me know why people don't sell. No, I would say you have to be focused on it. We need to be out in the drive. I don't want people uncomfortable, but they can't be content. We need to be looking at different ways to make more money, because the revenue opportunities are there. We're just not striking. And we're losing market share. It's very apparent nowadays that we're losing it, with fewer new cars being sold than before. If you're not looking for ways to make more money and sell more stuff, then I think you've got your head in the sand, and you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Steve Shaw: There you go. "You're part of the problem." That is the title of this episode. All right, man. I'll see you next week.

Dave Rogers: Bye, brother. Talk to you.