He Started in a Call Center — Now He Runs Fixed Ops | Marcello Gloria

A loyal listener and an old friend 0:00

[Steve Shaw] Welcome, everybody. Welcome back to Fixed Ops Focus with Steve Shaw and Dave Rogers. Here we are again. I don't know where we are. We're getting close to 100, Dave. What's going on? What's on your mind? How you doing?

Dave Rogers: Starting to feel old. A hundred, man. What the hell? That's a lot. And in only eight or nine months, too. We've been working our asses off. Nothing much, man. Just doing everything but concentrating on fixed ops lately. Putting out a couple fires, doing a couple projects for the owners. You know how that goes. Everybody in fixed ops knows that sometimes your job is everything else but fixed ops. But other than that, everything's been cool. Been having fun, enjoying myself. How about you, man?

Steve Shaw: Life is good. Sometime today I want to talk about how I was wowed today, so I've got to have a follow-up on that. And the other thing I have to say is we have a loyal listener, because I was contacted by Nancy over in your neck of the woods, in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Nancy is a big fan of our show, and a big fan of yours, Mr. Rogers. So shout out to Nancy for watching. I think she's watched every one of our episodes. So thank you, we appreciate that. We have one listener that we know of for sure.

Dave Rogers: Well, I think we've got two. The gentleman joining us today claims he listens to our episodes. So I think we have two. But hey, it's great to hear, Nancy. At least somebody likes me besides my girlfriend. So I'm bringing in a very old friend of mine. It's going on twenty-six, twenty-seven years, probably the late nineties or early 2000s when I first met this gentleman, Marcello Gloria. When I met him, I guess he was still in college, and he was working the help desk for the public company we had. He was my ADP, CDK help desk guy. Now he's a big shot fixed ops director in the automotive business. I think Empire, in New York, right, Marcello? Welcome aboard.

The help desk guy who knew the system 2:10

[Marcello Gloria] Thank you, guys. It's a pleasure being here with you. Dave, it's always a pleasure. Back in the day when I met Dave, I worked with UAG, United Auto Group, and a year or so later, I think, Penske bought us. Dave was this tremendous fixed ops guy who used to call into the help desk every single day with questions. And I was like, who the heck is this guy, man? How come he calls so much? And I got to know him a little bit. And Dave has always said that he taught me the business quite a bit, even though my background is the car business. I was telling you guys before the show, I grew up in South America, in Brazil. And by the way, that's another topic Dave always wanted to know about. He wanted to know my nationality, and I never told him for approximately a decade.

Dave Rogers: He wouldn't tell me.

Steve Shaw: What part of Brazil?

Marcello Gloria: Southern Brazil. Minas Gerais, Espírito Santo. It's just a section of Brazil, south of Rio. My family...

Steve Shaw: I know where that's at. That's awesome. Go ahead, sorry. I have a house in Santa Catarina.

Marcello Gloria: So you've been to Brazil. Santa Catarina is also another phenomenal part of Brazil. So anyway, I worked with Penske, and we did all the installations for Penske all over the country. Every time they put up a new dealership, they would send me to work with every facet of the business. And one topic Dave was not good but tremendous at was fixed ops. As we all know, he's one of the best out there. At that time I was a programmer for the company, so every time he would call in, I said, "Dave, the only way I'll give you any answer is if you teach me the business, the American business." He said, "Okay, we'll do that." And that's how the relationship started. He's done not a good but a tremendous job helping me out along the way. So it's truly a pleasure to be here. Dave, do you happen to recall the first time we met?

Dave Rogers: No.

Marcello Gloria: Dave was having an issue at his Chrysler dealer. He wanted to get some warranty administration done, and the bottom line is I helped him out with that. I created a report for him back in the day, and from there it became history.

Dave Rogers: It drove me crazy that I couldn't transmit the warranty claims from ADP to Chrysler at the time, and I think Marcello was the guy who finally fixed that issue. I used to have to manually type every claim into the Chrysler dial machine, because nobody could figure out how to get the integration to work, and he finally figured it out. I think that's how we met.

Steve Shaw: Oh my God. I remember having to keypunch all that into that little dial machine way back in the day. Ninety-six, ninety-seven, I think, is about when it was.

Dave Rogers: Well, I called him up and said, "There's a button on the dial machine that says import from DMS. How come I can't do that?" That's what used to drive him crazy. I used to call him every day, because I knew he'd answer the phone at 6:30 when I got in. And there was so much stuff about the computer that bothered me. I had my tip of the day at the time with ADP, with problems. They would drive me nuts, and he used to solve every one of them. It used to be hysterical.

From computer science to fixed ops 6:14

[Steve Shaw] That's amazing. How did you go from the call center, the ADP center, with advice from Dave, to where you are now? How did that transition take place?

Marcello Gloria: My family owned dealerships in Brazil, truck dealerships, so I came from the business, in southern Brazil. I worked in parts, and I worked a little bit in sales. Not that I really worked; during the summer I would help. And then I came here and was going to college. I have a degree in computer science and a degree in marketing. While I was going to college, I was working for United Auto Group at that time. And Dave is one of the folks who said, "Man, you should go back into the retail side of the business." And I was like, it may make sense.

One of the executives at United Auto Group had left, Ron Dubin, who became CFO, CFO slash COO, at a local car dealership here. He invited me. He said, "Marcello, I'd love for you to come work with me." We were able to help him take two dealerships into a nine-store group, and they became very, very successful. I was with him for fourteen years. And by the way, Dave, that's one of my greatest accomplishments. Everyone would last with Ron just a few months, and I can say this because he happens to be a good friend. I lasted fourteen years. So he's the one who brought me into the car business.

And I think what happened, Steve and Dave, is that because of my programming knowledge and my retail knowledge, I went into the fixed ops side of the business and worked every facet of it, learning more and more. And I realized that no matter what business you're in, it's all about the client, right? That's one thing I've lived on: taking care of the client. It's wowing people, and making sure that whoever gets in front of me, I'm going to turn them around in a good way. Luckily, in my career, with all the franchises I've worked with, we've been able to truly help the client feel transparency. I think it's transparency, it's relationships, and it's doing the right thing by the client.

Initially we talked about what makes this business great, right? In the car business, we always try to do the very best for the client. But how many people take ownership? By learning from some people what to do and what not to do, that's one topic we focused on. And then we realized it was a lot easier than people think. But it takes consistency, and not everyone is consistent. But I'll turn back to what Dave was about to say about getting in at six or six-thirty in the morning, and it's true. Over all the years, Steve, we spent a lot of time making sure we were the first ones in, and we continue to be one of the last ones out.

Steve Shaw: Are you still the first one in to this day?

Marcello Gloria: Unequivocally. There's no doubt in my mind.

Steve Shaw: I knew it. See, there you go.

Marcello Gloria: And I don't know if that's the greatest thing.

Dave Rogers: You know what? I used to really enjoy that first half hour, hour before everyone else got in. Whether we were bullshitting about something, or you were running reports, doing something. People always used to ask me, "How'd you learn the computer system?" I got plunked out of a handwritten system into ADP. I didn't have any training, I didn't have anything. At the time, obviously, you had the screen, you could hit main menu and scroll through different options and see all your options, right? I would spend that first half hour of the morning, and sometimes after work, exploring the different functions.

There were plenty of times I was panicking, because I printed reports that are probably still printing to this day, until I learned how to kill the spooler. But I used to do it all the time. I would just hit a button and see what happened. I used to tell people, "The worst it can do is beep at you." That's how I learned. Marcello laughs at me, but I would get frustrated sometimes, because I went down all these avenues and streets trying to figure things out, and then I'd finally call him up and say, "Tell me." And he had the ability, which is different from most people you talk to, even today when you talk to CDK people. He knew the stuff behind the scenes. He used to tell me, "There's a flag behind this, and you do this in this file." It was uber-geek language, right? But he knew how the system worked behind the scenes, which is really what helped me in front of the scenes. Marcello, you said you had a story or two. I'm sure it had to do with ADP or CDK at some point, and my frustration, because I used to boil over.

Don't drink the water 12:00

[Marcello Gloria] I have the computer stories too. The spooler is one of them. One day I come in, and there are boxes of paperwork in my office. I'm like, what is this? Everything is from Chrysler. Dave was printing to the wrong printer in a network of twenty dealerships. But I'll tell you, the greatest story is about personality. Dave was moved around from store to store, and they moved him to a location in New York. So I said, "Dave, how's everything going?" He said, "Everything is great, man. One of the topics I'm working on is no one is allowed to drink the water." I was like, "What do you mean, no one's allowed to drink the water?" And there he goes: "Because the people in that location will never do well unless they stop drinking the water."

It wasn't just a metaphor, Steve. It was about truly not drinking the water. And Dave said, "But I have a new guy who's phenomenal." I said, "Really? What's he doing?" He said, "He doesn't do anything the local folks tell him to. He does everything I tell him to do." At that time I was traveling from store to store, and I would give Dave ideas: this store does this, this store does that. And he'd be like, "Hmm, interesting, I like that." Every time Dave got a new store, he would send me over to set everything up. So two or three months later I see Dave, and he said, "You know that new guy? I think I'm going to let him go." I said, "Why?" He said, "Every time I talk to him, he tells me, 'The reason we do it this way, Dave, is because that's what we do around here.'"

Steve Shaw: That's the way we've always done it.

Dave Rogers: The way we've always done it. Yep.

Detach yourself and act like it's your first month 13:55

[Marcello Gloria] So Steve, I think one thing Dave has always brought to the table is detaching himself. He's been very good at detaching himself and seeing what's happening. In our business, one thing I teach anyone who works with me... I've been very lucky. Every business I've gotten into, I've tripled the business. I've been very, very lucky setting up systems, and making sure the guys are choosing the right words to use, with consistency, what to say and what not to say. I live on transparency, facing the facts immediately. Far from perfection, man, but doing the right thing.

When you go into the Ritz-Carlton, right, you are treated like gold. Everyone knows your name. When clients feel that, there's nothing better than that type of relationship. When people feel good, whether it's a Range Rover store or a Hyundai store, they know what they're dealing with. They can sense it. And that's how Dave always detached himself, which is what I teach our team. I was mentioning to Dave the other day that I spent a lot of time along the way educating myself with Tony Robbins, right?

One of the topics I learned was NLP, neuro-linguistic programming. One of the things they teach you there is how to truly detach yourself from anything at any time. If you're that picture on the wall, listening to what's happening, are you doing the right thing? See yourself watching yourself dealing with a client. Or better yet, if there's a camera. Nowadays there are cameras everywhere, but back in the day not so many cameras were available, right? But you teach yourself to do your very best.

And the other approach I learned from Tony is to always act on the job as if it's your first month on the job. Because in the first month on the job, you're not going to look at what's wrong. You're going to look at everything that can be modified to be better, or everything that works great. That first month on the job has been my attitude with anyone and everyone. How can I truly make the business better? The only concern I've had is expectations, right? When you start doing really well for the business, everyone becomes comfortable with doing crazy numbers, and now there's an expectancy. I used to joke around with Dave, I don't know if he recalls. I said, "The only thing that grows faster than tech knowledge and my production, Dave, is your expectations." Because Dave had high expectations too.

Dave Rogers: That's right. It's true.

Where did the wow go? 17:06

[Steve Shaw] I was going to say, that leads into one of the things I was thinking about, listening to you talk about transparency and taking care of the customer. You said "wow." Our episode recently was about being wowed as a customer. But I think we've lost that as an industry. In the service industry in general, we've lost that drive to give people that wow, that "Hey, I'm here." Especially in the car business, right? Your car's broken down, and I want to take care of you. I'm going to have you leave my dealership in a better mood, in a better place than you were when you got here.

For some reason, that is lost right now, right? Whether we're too busy, maybe it's training, maybe it's an expectation. Maybe customers' expectations are so high that some of our people feel like, "I can't deliver that anyway, they're ridiculous, so I'm just going to do my business," right? I'm not exactly sure what the real reason is. But I think we've lost that desire to give our customers the experience they really, really want. And that's why they come to a car dealer.

Dave Rogers: I agree a hundred percent. And I think Marcello's done a great job with that, coming at it from the expectation side, looking at it from the customer's view. He was a very technical guy, right? He was into all the IT stuff. When he started at that nine-dealer group, Jack Daniels, he was in charge of IT, and he was looking at telephony type things. He was looking at all these different ways to make everyone's life easier and make the customer experience better. There might have been some cost savings and some budgetary stuff he was working on, but it was a nine-dealer group, pretty much luxury dealers for the most part, so it was to make it that premium place. He always seemed to bring that to the table when we were talking.

And one thing he's talking about is Nanuet. They moved me around store to store, and my previous store was a Toyota store. I go up to this Mercedes-Benz store up in New York, and I was amazed at how cold and indifferent everyone was. The building was gray, and the mood was gray. I used to say this place is doom and gloom. So the thing I came up with was that most of the employees who were just miserable SOBs lived within five miles of the dealership.

So I came up with the thing, and I said there must be something in the water. Either that, or they're drinking their own bathwater. Something's going on here, right? And I think the Stony Point nuclear facility wasn't too far away, so I was of the opinion that there was something wrong. So I went to HR and said, "Listen, I'm not going to hire anybody who lives within five miles of the dealership," and they told me I couldn't do that. So I had to find other ways not to hire people who lived close to the dealership, because it was either something in the water, or they were drinking their own bathwater, or there was just something with that place. Everybody was miserable. I couldn't believe it. And they're telling me I don't know what the hell I'm doing, because I came out of a Toyota store, right?

The Toyota store I came out of was number one in CSI. We were growing like crazy. It was a great store, and everyone loved coming there. And I go up there, and it's a miserable bunch of people up in Rockland County, New York. I couldn't believe it. I got fed up really quick. And like he said, after three months somebody would tell me, "Well, that's the way we've always done it." Get the hell out of here.

Steve Shaw: The five worst words in the English language, right? "We've always done it this way."

Dave Rogers: That was always my biggest thing, right? Don't tell me that's the way you've always done it. I used to say to them, "Well, that's why I'm here. Because what you did before sucked, and now they sent me here to fix the place. So we're not going to do what you did before." And they didn't like that, of course.

Steve Shaw: You know what's interesting, Marcello? You said it a couple of times: systems and processes, right? Coming from an IT background, we set up systems, we set up processes, it's consistency. There's a process running in every store, no matter what. It may or may not have been designed. It's just "this is how we do business," right? And by you coming in and setting up those systems, that series of processes, you designed it your way. You said, "This is how it has to work." It's mind-blowing. I love it. My hat's off to you for doing that and setting a standard for people. That's great stuff. And we don't do enough bragging about the great people out there doing that. I think sometimes we get caught up in it, Dave, as we talk trash. There's a lot of crappy stuff going on. But there are people like Marcello and others who are really doing well, and setting up those great processes that need to be celebrated.

Dave Rogers: And you've done it across different brands, Marcello. Hyundai, JLR, Mercedes. You had a bunch of premium stores. So a process to you must just be a process, right? It doesn't matter what kind of customer it is. You're making a process.

Do what's right for the client 22:06

[Marcello Gloria] So Steve and Dave, one thing I live by is what I was saying: transparency. Because in this business we're in sales. We're selling ourselves every day, and service is selling too, right? And parts is selling too. But the other piece is the lifetime relationship. If you don't have those three, you're not going to be successful. And the consistency has to come behind it too. With the lifetime relationship, there's not a client who sits in front of one of us where the goal isn't to tell that person, "Ultimately, at the end of the day, we're going to work this out, we're going to make this amicable, and we'll most likely become friends for life." And if they choose not to, it's truly their choice. Because when I'm sitting with a client, I have to make a decision, and the decision is always going to be on the side of the client, as long as they're not taking advantage of the dealership.

So we have to take ownership of what we do. It's simple, Steve, as you all know. We teach it every day. Dave knows it. Everyone knows it. But not a lot of people are consistent enough, or take ownership enough, to make that decision.

Steve Shaw: I love what you said, though: making the decision for the client, right? No matter what, the first question we have to ask, which is NLP, is what's right? What's the right thing to do, no matter what? And then we can talk about what's next and who's going to pay for it, right? But "what's right" always has to be the first question we ask. And that's the transparency. If the customer is trying to get over on us, well, then maybe they're not always right, right? But what's right for everybody? If we go down that path, we're transparent: this is how it works, this is what's right. Then we can take it to the next step. That's 100% transparent.

Marcello Gloria: I'll tell you a quick story that Dave always lived by. I remember one time we were talking, and I always said it was about the client. There was a time with the manufacturer where I was like, "I can't believe the manufacturer is doing this." And Dave said to me, "What if it were a client?" I said, "That's a good point." We had to solve the problem for the client, right? So the manufacturer in a way became a client for me. Because without that support, you truly cannot be as successful.

Measure what you do, then add technology 25:13

[Marcello Gloria] I think our business is so simple, but so intricate, and it truly has to do with the steps we take every day. If you expect your team to do the very best, but you don't show up, you're not going to be successful. I work for a company now where the owner is absolutely tremendous, and the main fixed ops person, my boss, is another tremendous person too. What they do is take care of the client, and they use technology to help them measure what they're doing. They measure everything. I absolutely love it. Sometimes I laugh and say to myself, how great can it be? But truly, we have to measure what we do, and we have to take ownership, as you said.

And I see what you guys are doing today with the podcast. That's what I told Dave. I like the podcast because you're touching on everything that many people don't. There's no one else out there... well, there are some guys, but no one who's doing this on a weekly basis. So I absolutely love it, and I think a lot of folks can learn from it, including myself.

Dave Rogers: Well, thanks. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to pay it forward and give people some education. I think podcasting is a great medium for anything. You can do ten- or fifteen-second clips for media, or a thirty-second reel, but how much do you really learn doing that? It's like anything. If you watch the news or any kind of show on TV, they give the people being interviewed what seems like fifteen seconds, maybe two minutes. You can't get the full picture in. We're trying to keep these things twenty, twenty-five, thirty minutes. I think the long form is a great way to learn and discuss. We were doing the live one for a little bit, and it becomes a little much to do the live one while you have a real job. I don't know how Sam does it three times a week over at CDG, but he does it somehow. I appreciate you watching and listening, and I always love your feedback, good, bad or indifferent. I know I'm going to get honest feedback from my buddy Marcello, that's for damn sure.

Marcello Gloria: There's one type of technology I really enjoy, and I don't know if you guys are familiar with NotebookLM. NotebookLM for podcasting happens to be phenomenal. As you can see, Steve, I like technology, and I still read a lot about technology. Dave, that's the only exception to what you're saying. I think NotebookLM teaches you a lot, because it makes it conversational. And that's what you guys are bringing to the table too.

Steve Shaw: I'll have to look into it. But I think no matter what, we're in a people business. I love technology for the reports and the analytics and all that, but all the tools we have that are technology-based should enhance what we've done, right? We should have a great process, behaviorally, and then use that technology to enhance it and make it better. Because I've done a lot of training over the years, and when people try to throw a piece of technology at a problem, it never fixes it, right? Never fixes the problem. It just gives you the same effed-up process, and now I've got to deal with a piece of technology on top of it. But when we have a great process and we bring in technology, when we marry that technology with a great process, it exponentially drives the performance. So I couldn't agree with you more.

GM tip: walk the drive 29:34

[Dave Rogers] So Marcello, I'm going to leave it to you: the GM tip of the day. You come from the fixed ops side, although you do have a background in sales from your Brazilian days. If you had the chance to tell the GMs out there in the world one tip of the day from the fixed ops standpoint, what would it be?

Marcello Gloria: I think it's so simple, but walk the drive. Come in and walk the drive. And the other thing is, ask the guy below the manager and get his information. Don't act on it alone, but don't only talk to the manager. Talk to the other guys. You're going to learn a lot more about your business. I think it's key nowadays, folks. Everyone is thinking about the hierarchy. And I'll make this quick, but the Japanese always said a flatter organization stands stronger against the wind. It's very true. You don't have to have all that hierarchy. If you just do what's best for your team, what's best for the business and what's best for the client, and listen to the people who are in the drive, and the technicians too. That's my tip of the day.

Steve Shaw: Awesome.

Dave Rogers: And then Steve, you wanted to ask him about being wowed.

Steve Shaw: I was going to ask you, because you said it a couple of times. When was the last time you were wowed outside of your organization? It sounds like you're doing a great job of trying to create those wow moments. Remember the days when we had those poker chips? We'd give you a chip if you were caught doing a wow moment. Somebody needs to revive that. So Marcello, have you been wowed lately, or is it just me? Or tell me what you're doing in your world to give somebody that wow today.

Marcello Gloria: That's a good question. Give somebody the wow today. I go back to the Ritz-Carlton. Every time I go to the Ritz-Carlton, or a great hotel, they know your name by the time you come to the door, and your glass of champagne is waiting for you. And that smile, no matter what's happening, is wowing people. Wowing team members. And I've been lucky that a lot of people have worked with me, and a lot of times they wow me with the way they do things too. But the latest episode of someone truly wowing me is the Ritz-Carlton, the way the service is. And my goal in this business is to see if we can get there. Can you do it with every franchise? I think a high-end franchise helps you get there a lot better, and I was telling Dave that the other day. But everyone can become a lot better by having that mentality every day too. Wow, or ownership, and the first month on the job.

Steve Shaw: Awesome. Well, I'm going to tell you this much, going back to what Dave said at the beginning. If you were a college student working IT, and now you're a fixed ops director running a big store, staying at the Ritz? Good job, man. You've done a great job for yourself. Staying at the Ritz-Carlton. I love it. Congratulations on all of your success. I think that's fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us today, and thanks for being a great listener. We appreciate all of your input. Dave?

Dave Rogers: We didn't even really scratch the surface, but one thing about Marcello, if you listen to him carefully: a student of the game, right? Always learning. I've always felt like I'm probably one of the most curious people I know, and I think Marcello probably puts me to shame. He's probably five times more curious than I am. Maybe because he's a little younger, he's got a little more spunk. But he's one of those guys where the reason he is where he is is because he was a student of the game all the time, always asking questions. He wouldn't answer the simplest question for me. The simplest. At six-thirty in the morning I'd call him: "Hey, I've got a real quick question." Nope. "You've got to pay the piper. You've got to give me something." He wouldn't do it. Just like he wouldn't tell me what nationality he was for ten years. It was funny.

Steve Shaw: That's good stuff. I love it, right? Working on the business. Being a student of the game. That's the key, always looking for ways to better yourself, better our stores. I think that's 100% what the business is all about. How do we become better students of the game? How do we get better at what we do? How do we deliver a better experience to our customer? Everything we do should be wrapped around that. What's right? What's right for the customer? Good job.

Dave Rogers: Good job. Way to do it. It's been a pleasure to know you, Marcello. It really is. I'm honored.

Marcello Gloria: The pleasure's all mine, Dave. Thank you both so much. Thank you for the time.

Steve Shaw: It was my pleasure to get to know you today. Well, let's get out of here, Dave. This one was a long one, so we'd better get out of here. We'll see you later. Have fun.

Dave Rogers: I'll catch you later. Thanks.