Dave Ambushed with ChatGPT: You Won't Believe What Happened

Turning the tables on Steve 0:00

Steve Shaw: And we are live again. Here we go again, Dave. Can you believe it?

Dave Rogers: Who would have thought?

Steve Shaw: Who knew we'd make it? In a couple of weeks we'll be live on Fridays. Just so everybody knows, let's make that announcement again. I think Friday, June 5th will be our first live episode, at 4 p.m. Eastern. So you can join us on our live show, ask questions and meet a couple of cool people, as well as our vendor profit partner, whatever the heck we call that segment. We've got a couple of cool people coming in to talk to us then, so I'm pretty excited. This is pretty amazing. What's on your mind today?

Dave Rogers: Yeah, can't wait. Should be fun. Getting some guests on will be fun. So, after you grilled me on the podcast with AI, I figured it was time to turn the tables on you, Steve. I want to hear your answers and compare them to what AI says.

Steve Shaw: All right, I like it. Let's see if AI agrees with Steve.

Dave Rogers: Well, this is ChatGPT, not Claude, so it should be a different answer than you got. We'll kick it off. What are the biggest mistakes you still see dealerships making in fixed ops in 2026?

Steve Shaw: As related to training?

Dave Rogers: As related to anything.

Accountability, process and the high-performing advisor 1:49

Steve Shaw: No accountability. I see a lack of accountability on the service drive. I'd say that's the biggest mistake we make. We want to be friends. We don't want to hold people accountable.

Dave Rogers: Okay, ChatGPT didn't give me an answer for that one. It said, "It's a great first question because it creates tension."

Steve Shaw: Well, that probably created tension right there.

Dave Rogers: What separates a high-performing service advisor from an average one?

Steve Shaw: I'm going to take the easy answer on that one. Following the process. Trusting the process. Doing what the advisor is set out to do. Hopefully the dealership set a process in place correctly, and if that process is in place and the advisor follows it as set out by the manager, that's what's going to separate a high-performing person from a non-high-performing person. I could add a caveat to that answer, if you wanted to interject first.

Dave Rogers: Well, good, because last time we did this, I answered one point and AI gave you three things. Elaborate all you want.

Steve Shaw: Just say yes. When somebody asks you to do something, you say, "Yes, I'll do it. I'll take it. I'll handle it. It's done."

Dave Rogers: It says the best advisors build trust fast. Customers can tell immediately whether someone is trying to help them or sell them. Top advisors communicate clearly, set expectations early, follow up and stay organized. Communication is more important than product knowledge. I agree with that.

Steve Shaw: I agree that communication is more important. Absolutely. I still like my answer.

Leadership, leadership, leadership 3:43

Dave Rogers: Do you think most dealerships have a people problem, a process problem or a leadership problem? Right in your alley.

Steve Shaw: People, process or leadership. I'm going to say they're all related to leadership. It's leadership, leadership, leadership. There's no question in my mind. I think there's a lack of understanding of what the role of a leader is and how to execute that role. And if you do that well, the people and the processes will follow naturally.

Dave Rogers: Bingo, you nailed it. "Usually leadership," it says. "Leadership creates process and culture. Weak leadership leads to inconsistent process."

Steve Shaw: Awesome. It's never the people. It's always the process of the leader.

Dave Rogers: Which KPI do dealerships focus on too much, and which KPI are they ignoring?

Steve Shaw: That's a tough one. I know the answer from when we did this with you: hours per RO, versus effective labor rate. But you know what I think people are looking at more and more each day, and I've never really talked about it? Gross per hour.

Dave Rogers: Yeah, I've heard people chasing that metric. I've looked at it before, and I think it's definitely an interesting metric to chase. ChatGPT says a lot of stores obsess over CSI scores without understanding what drives them. They chase surveys instead of improving the customer experience. And the metric that gets overlooked is technician productivity and billed hours per tech.

Steve Shaw: I was about to say proficiency. That was really on my mind. So I'll agree with ChatGPT on that. I think that's right on.

Dave Rogers: That's funny, because that was our first episode. We talked about productivity. So maybe it's listening to our podcast as well.

Steve Shaw: Well, where does ChatGPT get its answers? Source: Steve Shaw Training.

Customers want frictionless service, right now 6:24

Dave Rogers: How has customer behavior changed since COVID, and how should service departments adapt?

Steve Shaw: Holy cow. Customers have more information than ever, and customers' expectations are higher. So I think dealerships have to adapt to the situation. I'm going to say it, don't slap me: the customer is always right. They are the customer. And we have to adapt to the customer's higher expectations, because they're not going away.

Dave Rogers: "Customers expect convenience now. Faster communication, texting, transparency, pickup and delivery, digital inspections. They want friction removed."

Steve Shaw: They are listening to our podcast. Frictionless service. Right on, Damon. Another shout-out to Damon.

Dave Rogers: Our friend in Canada. "The issue is that your service process still feels like 2012 to customers."

Steve Shaw: Frictionless service. Damon, you nailed it many, many weeks ago. And then what did you say? "Right now." I don't know if we did that exercise, but "right now" service. Absolutely. "Yes, and right now."

Dave Rogers: "Yes, and right now" has to be the answer. One of my old bosses started saying that in 2007 or 2008, somewhere in there. "Yes, and right now." That was his expression all the time. It's a good expression.

Steve Shaw: I love it. I'm going to put that in our loyalty class coming up for '27.

Dave Rogers: I think it's the easiest way to defuse a situation. Somebody wants to bring a car in? "Bring it down now." It's always been that, and it should always be that way.

Steve Shaw: And I've got to get Damon a certificate. Frictionless.

Dave Rogers: I heard that somewhere else the other day, so everyone's copying it.

What keeps a technician 8:31

Dave Rogers: What's the biggest thing dealers misunderstand about technician retention? I think you asked me this one.

Steve Shaw: I did ask you a question like that. It's a three-legged stool, Dave. Listen, I'm not going to tell you what ChatGPT or Claude said. The biggest thing for technician retention is listening to your technicians. Having a regular meeting and talking to your people is the biggest thing anybody can do for technician or employee retention: listening, and then acting on what the technicians have to say.

Dave Rogers: "Money matters, but respect and workflow still matter. Technicians leave chaotic jobs: dispatch is bad, parts aren't ready, warranty approvals drag, or management only talks to them when something's wrong. They'll leave even for a small pay increase elsewhere." So you're right, you nailed it.

You've worked with a lot of stores. What habits do you consistently see in the best fixed ops departments?

Steve Shaw: Gosh, that goes back to one of the earlier questions. I could say process. That would be the easy thing: having processes and playbooks and following them. But I'm going to say this, because there's one store I call on, and I've been threatening to talk about this forever. It's training. I took my truck in recently because I had a low tire, and I was the biggest D-I-C-K customer: "I've got to go, I've got to go," push, push, push. They followed their process. I was like, "Guys, you don't have to do a walk-around with me. Just get it in. I've got to go." They walked around the car anyway. He followed the process to a T. And you know why? Because I know this particular dealer group has the process, they have a playbook, and their managers are executing it with them on a regular basis. It's the training piece of that. Training and accountability.

Dave Rogers: The last one, daily accountability, your favorite term. You snuck that in at the very end. "Morning meetings, clean processes, managers actively on the drive, advisors using consistent walk-arounds. Technicians need support instead of excuses. The best stores aren't magical, they're disciplined." It's like you wrote this answer. Pretty good job.

Steve Shaw: I think ChatGPT is coming to our shows.

Where AI helps and where it's hype 11:35

Dave Rogers: Where do AI and technology actually help fixed ops, and where are they just hype?

Steve Shaw: Well, listen, I am not an AI phone person. I think it hinders people on the phone. However, I did call into a dealership that had a pretty good AI tree. But I'm an instant-gratification, old-school guy, so I'm still going to stick by that. I think it hinders us the most when there's not an operator, not a live person to take the phone call. Where does it help us the most? I'd say AI is most helpful with analytics: looking at data and doing comparisons. I think that's the best use of AI. The worst of it is on the telephone.

Dave Rogers: "AI helps with communication, scheduling, follow-up and identifying missed opportunities in data. But technology doesn't replace leadership or culture. Bad process with expensive software is still a bad process." That's what I've always said. You're not going to fix it with technology. You're just going to highlight the fact that you suck. That's all the reporting is going to do for you. "Too many dealers think software fixes discipline problems."

It's true. Everybody wants to talk about AI. I use it sometimes to get an idea, as a thought starter, or to help write something when I'm stumped. I think that's good for technicians and advisors. And I like the AI voice trees if they're handled well, but they've got to be good, and a lot of customers just don't like it yet. In some stores the hang-up percentage is almost 60%, 70%, and in other stores the appointment rate is 60%, 70%. You can't figure it out. And I'm not talking about a Maserati or a Maybach dealer. I'm talking about a Mazda dealer where more than 50% of the people hang up on the phone. It's astonishing to me. There's no rhyme or reason to it. It's more of an area thing, I think.

Steve Shaw: I was thinking that while you were talking. Is it the area? Is it the brand? It could be demographics, any number of reasons. But that's where you go: you've got to look at your area and your people. If I have a 60% hang-up ratio, did I actually make a phone call to find out why? When I called into that Chrysler store, I would have hung up, except I was making a point of getting hold of somebody. I'd normally have hung up and not dealt with it. I don't think it's any different than Home Depot, where they want you to check yourself out. I will wait in a line to check out. If I had to put my service director hat on and go run a store, would I have kiosks? I'd probably have three of them in my store, but I'd have them manned, because I think there's a play with that.

But if my customers hate it, they'll never go over to it. I will not use the Publix self-checkout. No way, no how. I will go to the express line with a basket before I go to the self-checkout. I'm not using those types of things unless there's an incentive for me to do it.

Dave Rogers: Good point. We had the technology in the store, and customers called up and said, "I'm not talking to the machine." Then: "Okay, how can we help you?" They would talk to a human being. They just wouldn't talk to the machine. Even though it says, "I'm your virtual assistant, I can make an appointment," they'd hang up. It was astonishing. So you have to be in tune with your customers, that's for sure.

Managers who were never taught to coach 16:24

Dave Rogers: What's one uncomfortable truth about dealership culture that nobody likes talking about?

Steve Shaw: My default answer on that is having a meeting. I think people love communication, and they like guardrails. They like to know the processes and what they can and cannot do. But I think many people are very uncomfortable standing in front of a group of men and women and talking to them about processes and the direction of the store. Just holding meetings is very uncomfortable for people. And that leads you into coaching. I think coaching is a very uncomfortable position for most managers.

Dave Rogers: "A lot of dealerships tolerate mediocrity because they're afraid of turnover. They keep weak performers too long and overload strong employees. Eventually the top people burn out." A little different, but I agree with yours too. I think they're both good answers. I was going to give you a hint, because you were talking about the number seven hitter.

Steve Shaw: We tolerate mediocrity. And as you were so helpful in guiding us, we added some manager classes into our university, the role of the manager, and coaching is going to be a big part of that manager training program. It has to be. A lot of people are just unfamiliar with coaching: "What's my job? What do I do? What is my role?" I kid around about the guy in Idaho who was promoted to shop foreman. He'd been there forever, great guy. His first day on the job, he sat down in the chair and went, "What do I do now?" No idea. A very long-term employee, but he had no idea what to do. Lack of training, lack of skills, and not his fault. So we've got to educate people on what the role of the manager is. You and I have talked about that a million times.

Dave Rogers: That's the problem. A lot of service managers in particular were technicians. They got hurt, they moved up to shop foreman, somebody got fired and they got moved up. Like I always say, the pharaoh died and they all moved up a spot. That's kind of how it happens. There's no training. Nobody's teaching them, and they don't have a coach. They're not coaches. They were doers not too long ago. That's part of the problem. Managing is definitely a skill, and it's not taught much.

I remember after I had my accident, I realized I couldn't turn a wrench anymore. I was a grouchy, sarcastic, typical technician at that age, because I was hanging out with them. I realized I wasn't going to be able to do this advisor job if I didn't change my attitude. So I started reading books on personality, How to Win Friends and Influence People, all of those. I started reading the One Minute Manager books, because nobody was training me. I had a sudden career change because of an accident, so it wasn't a gradual promotion. I've always said that's lacking. When I was with the big company, they had their leadership training two or three times a year. Where's the manager training? When do you teach somebody to be a manager? My boss couldn't figure out how to do it. He asked me to write the class, and then he didn't want to do it anyway.

Steve Shaw: I went to Southern Illinois University. That's where I got my technical degree, in automotive service operations or something like that, and it was basically a glorified technical degree. I remember asking the instructors all the time, "What happens in the office with the manager and the field rep?" I'd been an advisor and gone back to school, so I didn't know. And they would all just chuckle. I was like, "What's so funny? You're promoting that we get a bachelor's degree in automotive service operations, but you're not teaching us how to operate a dealership." It was incredible. All of that stuff I had to go out and learn on my own. I agree with you. We need to do better.

Dave Rogers: And the last piece of that is not dealing with the underperformers. That takes guts and some confidence, and if you haven't been trained to be a manager and haven't gone to classes, you don't have the confidence to deal with them. And you might be shorthanded and have to cover the desk. But a lot of times, you just haven't been trained.

Steve Shaw: Hey, I am a divemaster. I got my PADI dive certification many years ago, and to become a divemaster, they require you to take a coaching class. You have to understand coaching to be on a dive boat and be in charge of people out on the water. They require that just to lead divers. And yet we're putting multimillion-dollar businesses in the hands of people and not giving them skills. It's absolutely amazing.

Dave Rogers: Every time we ever tried something like that, it worked. It's not that far-fetched, it's just not that common. That's the problem.

Fixing an underperforming service department 22:50

Dave Rogers: All right, actually the second-to-last question. If you took over an underperforming service department tomorrow, what are the first three things you'd fix?

Steve Shaw: The first thing I would make sure we had, number one, is a menu. Are we going to be able to sell something? Number two, I'd have a follow-up process for declined services. And three, I'd look at opcodes. That's always been my standard answer, and it's the question I would always ask a new service manager: "How are you going to take my store to the next level?" I'd want them to know those things. Do you have a menu? Do you have a multi-point inspection process? What's your follow-up process? And look at your opcodes.

Dave Rogers: So ChatGPT kept it a little bit higher level. "First, establish process consistency immediately. Second, clean up communication between advisors, technicians and parts. Third, inspect the numbers daily, not monthly. Most struggling departments already know their problem. They just haven't enforced the solution consistently."

Steve Shaw: What ChatGPT doesn't know is that if I just got hired as a manager, the store is probably underperforming, and if I don't get some freaking money on the books right now, I'll be the next manager out the door. So we'd better start selling shit.

Dave Rogers: I don't think ChatGPT had a safety net or a parachute there.

Steve Shaw: Most people aren't getting the 90-day guarantee anymore.

Dave Rogers: So we go back to the first question: what are the biggest mistakes dealerships still make in fixed ops? ChatGPT finally did give me an answer. "Too many dealerships still operate reactively instead of proactively. They wait until CSI drops, technicians quit or gross profit falls before addressing problems." And I think you mentioned inconsistency in your answer. And then, of course, the patented answer: "The best stores build repeatable processes and hold people accountable every day." It was a little slow on the uptake, but ChatGPT finally came through.

Steve Shaw: It finally came around. It had to think about it. It was listening to our podcast to get the answer.

Every beat-down got you here: the GM tip 25:28

Steve Shaw: Wow, is that it? Did I get them all?

Dave Rogers: That's it. That's the 10th question. I think you passed. Our trainer passed the course.

Steve Shaw: That's a 10, good deal. That wasn't too bad. Honestly, I thought you were going to ask me training questions, but that was cool. You put me back. I had to put my consulting hat or my service manager hat on to answer some of those questions.

Dave Rogers: I knew who Steve Shaw was and what you did. I think it was your past experience and your present experience with training.

Steve Shaw: I think that's really a key. Whatever role you're in, you've got to draw on your past experience, and I wouldn't be where I'm at today if it weren't for all of the beat-downs I took. It cracks me up. We talk about work and putting in the effort all the time, and everywhere I look, I'm seeing these topics. Not necessarily on YouTube, but in the real world. I'm watching people who are experts at this or that, or have been very successful, and how they put in the time to do what they did.

One of my neighbors, and I told the story about my brain surgery, I'm having coffee with him one morning, and he says, "I designed the saw that cuts through the human skull." He tells me about the million sensors it has and everything in it. I asked how he got to do that, and he told me about all the years he spent in industrial design and medical equipment. Just think about it. If he had gone straight from college to designing brain surgery equipment, I'm not so sure I would have survived. I appreciate people's effort more than you can imagine: the grind, the beat-downs, the tools that don't work, on my finger versus on my head. So I think it's important that we all work on the business and on getting ourselves better.

Dave Rogers: I agree. Everything you've done, learned or seen from day one through now is what makes you you. You have to use those experiences, that knowledge and that whole background to make your decisions. That's all you need to be. You just need to be you in business.

Steve Shaw: I ended up in the jungle of Peru one time with a bunch of shamans, and the shaman said, "It was mathematically impossible for you not to be here." And I said, "I think I get that." It's all your experiences that led you right here to where you are. You'd better give us a GM tip of the day.

Dave Rogers: GM tip of the day: use your past experience and your knowledge, and try to impart some of that. Let everybody know you're human. Let everybody know you screwed up along the way. Let them know you weren't just God's gift to general managers and weren't just anointed with that job at some point. Being like that is going to bring the team closer together and let everybody see that this is how we learn and get better. Then start using some of that to coach up your crew. The recurring answer to a lot of these questions was accountability, coaching and communication, those fundamentals. I don't care what department you're in, it's all the same. You have to stay consistent. Just keep training your team and coaching them up.

Steve Shaw: Awesome. Thanks for turning the tables, and I look forward to catching up with you next week.

Dave Rogers: Yes, sir. Talk to you later.

Steve Shaw: Later, Dave.