Dave Talks Factory Maintenance

Fighting the advisor for more maintenance 0:00

Dave Rogers: Hey Steve, how you doing?

Steve Shaw: I'm doing great, Dave. What's on your mind?

Dave Rogers: Maintenance is on my mind today.

Steve Shaw: Maintenance is on your mind? All right, let's talk about maintenance. What's going on?

Dave Rogers: Well, I had a situation, a little story from a couple of years ago. I bring my car in for service, my Dodge Charger. It's nothing fancy, it's not a Hellcat, so don't get all excited. Just a regular Charger with a 5.7 Hemi. I bring it to a store, and I've always been one to over-maintain, or I'd say maintain, my vehicles. And I laughed, because I had to fight with the advisor, almost like the story you tell sometimes.

I want my oil changed every 5,000 miles. I want my tires rotated every time. I think my car had 50,000 miles on it, and I'm like, "Check the spark plugs." He's like, "Spark plugs are good for 100,000 miles." I go, "No, no, check the spark plugs," and I'm arguing with the guy. You called it my rant, but the factory maintenance on a car and the factory books, basically it's drinking the factory Kool-Aid. I see it every day. When I hear the advisors answer the phone: "Is your light on? How many miles are on your car? No, you don't need an oil change." It's one of those things that gets under my skin every day.

The minimum requirement is the least you can do 1:37

Steve Shaw: Well, I've heard your entire rant, which usually goes on for 40 minutes to an hour, and I agree with you. We have a class called factory maintenance and driveway sales. I'm often trying to get people to add additional items in the drive, and then I'll hear even from managers occasionally, "No, we don't want to sell in the drive." And I'm like, we're not selling anything in particular. We're just presenting the facts, right out of the owner's manual. Let's just get what the owner's manual says. I call that the minimum requirement. But that is really the least you can do for your car. And how well has the least you can do worked for our customers over the years?

Lease buyouts and neglected engines 2:29

Dave Rogers: It hasn't done very well. Most people in the car business can remember a few years back, when COVID happened, let's say 2021, there weren't a lot of new cars out there. Inventory was restricted. There was no leasing. So you had folks coming out of their leases who were almost forced to buy their own lease, because they couldn't get another car. Maybe there were no vehicles out there, nothing they liked, whatever it was. And they're buying these vehicles that they basically neglected for three years in a lot of cases.

We had instances where people had their engine blow up, or major damage to the car, six months to a year after buying their own lease, and they wanted to be mad at us. I'm like, "Dude, I did not change your oil for three years. That was you." So if you're paying attention, you see timing chain issues, you see a lot of different issues on cars, catalytic converters failing. Most of the time, if you did a root cause on it, it's all from lack of maintenance.

Steve Shaw: Well, I think you brought it up one time, the Land Rover engine, $70,000 or something like that, where the maintenance interval is an annual interval. It's bad enough if you go 12 months without an oil change. Heaven forbid you actually miss one. What would that do to the engine and all those parts? And for a customer to end up with a $70,000 bill, holy cow. But yours was a little different in that respect. It wasn't the customer, it was your dealership.

Dave Rogers: Well, it was at the dealership. We were doing a state inspection on a car. It was just sitting there idling, and the timing chain jumped. The root cause: the guy bought the vehicle used, and he'd been coming in once a year for oil changes, like they recommended. I don't think it had that many miles on it when he bought it, and he was following the maintenance in the book. The thing had about 70,000 miles on it. It was a normal annual state inspection after a regular service, sitting there idling at the inspection machine, and the timing chain jumped.

You take the car apart and find out the top of the engine is sludgy. On these timing chains, the tension is maintained by a hydraulic tensioner, and oil goes through the tensioner. If it's a little sludgy, it doesn't extend all the way, the chain gets loose and it jumps. This was a catastrophic failure that caused engine damage. It was a major issue. And this guy wasn't a jerk. He was upset with us, but it wasn't like he never changed his oil. He followed the book. And there are some Land Rovers, and I'll say the name, where the maintenance schedule in the book is 21 months for the first service. Twenty-one months. That is a disaster waiting to happen. It really is.

Steve Shaw: Holy cow. Well, we're talking about just trying to get people to present the minimums, and that's just getting in the game. If the minimum on a JLR, or even a Mercedes or some of those cars, means you're not changing it every 12 months, what is that doing to the inside of the engine? It's absolutely crazy. I spend my time on the drive trying to add an additional item onto that. In one of our classes, we talk about fluid additives. I know not everybody is into fluid maintenance or fluid additives. But if I do have that car with a 21-month interval, or a 12-month interval, what kind of peace of mind would that give you? At least you're giving your car the best chance you possibly can.

Every six months, every 6,000 miles 6:29

Dave Rogers: Yeah, you've got to hedge your bet one way or the other, whether it's an additive or not. I still live by the mantra: every six months, every 6,000 miles, just change the oil and do a tire rotation. It's a hundred bucks. Even if you get a free one from the factory, like Volkswagen gives you a free one every year, come in at 5,000, 6,000 miles, pay for that oil change, and get the next one free. You never know what's going to happen. A three-year lease, as we've seen in the past, can turn into an ownership deal.

Steve Shaw: Yeah, absolutely. I bought two cars off a lease, going into it knowing I might keep the car. And I'm one of those people who over-maintains. There was a time in my life when I really couldn't afford to, but I couldn't afford not to, you know what I mean? When I was traveling and starting my training career, I didn't have extra money lying around. I drove a lot, because I had to save money on travel wherever I could. But I knew that if I didn't do the maintenance on my car, I was going to get stuck in Utah with an engine problem. As an entrepreneur, I couldn't afford to be stuck somewhere, let alone pay the bill, let alone not make it to my next job. And I think that puts me in the same category as a customer.

Dave Rogers: It puts you in the same category as every one of us. The old "pay me now or pay me later" commercial.

Steve Shaw: Yeah, Fram.

Dave Rogers: That's kind of what it is. I understand what the manufacturer is doing. It's a marketing thing. Cost of ownership is a real thing. You want to look good in all the magazines. But it's not honest, and it's not the best thing for the customer. Depending on what brand you have, at 50,000 miles your powertrain warranty is up, unless it's a Hyundai or Kia. And once you're past 50,000 miles, does the manufacturer really give a rat's butt what happens to your car? Changing the oil once a year will probably get you to 50,000 miles. There's a pretty good chance you're going to make it. But you might not make it to 100,000 miles at that rate, and you're most likely not going to.

Steve Shaw: Well, back in the day it was 3,000-, 3,500-mile intervals, and we looked at cars as disposable at 100K. At 100,000 that car was going to be traded in; its useful life was over. Now we're at 5,000 or 10,000, and as you're saying, now the useful life is 50,000.

Dave Rogers: It doesn't make any sense, just because that's when the warranties are over. And even if you're leasing a car, if you brought back your lease, Steve, and told me, "Listen, here are my receipts for changing the oil," as a dealership, I'd want that car. I might even pay you a couple of extra dollars for that trade, because it doesn't need anything. So there's an advantage to spending this extra $100.

Think about it honestly. You have a three-year lease and the book says come in once a year. That's three oil changes, and for some manufacturers, like BMW, they're free. If you paid for one in between each, that's $300, $100 each. I've got to believe the dealership is going to give you $500 extra on your trade if they know you over-maintained the car. You're not going to lose any money. You're going to make $200 on the deal, if you really think about it.

Spark plugs at 100,000 miles is a pipe dream 10:02

Dave Rogers: And I know we don't want to go to the 45-minute rant, but look at the spark plugs, for example. I'm telling the advisor, "The book says 100,000 on spark plugs. I have 50. Check the plugs." I actually just told him to replace them, and he's like, "Well, they don't need it. It's 100,000." I said, "Then have your tech pull one and call me." So he pulls one, and he goes, "You know what, you're right, it needs it." I said, "Of course it needs it."

100,000 miles is a pipe dream. I don't want my catalytic converter going bad, because I have no intention of getting rid of the car. I like to keep it. If I kept driving like that, I'm going to be dumping fuel. You're always going to have a little extra oil burning in these cars. And all of a sudden, guess what? I'm going to have to buy myself a catalytic converter. And for those of you at home keeping score, it's over eight years old now, so it's out of the federal emissions warranty. It's on me. It's my dime.

Most people don't understand the mechanics. They don't understand the cause and effect. And it's all these little things we skip by because it's less aggravation. Like you said, "I don't want to be pushy. The book says 100,000 miles." But every mechanic in your shop knows the plugs don't last 100,000 miles. Everyone does.

Talk about the consequences 11:40

Steve Shaw: It's funny, because I study something every day, whether it's sales training or some technical stuff. I'm always online doing research. And one of my favorite people to follow is Chris Voss, the ex-FBI hostage negotiator. He's always talking about consequences in negotiations: what are the consequences? I talk about consequences very often in our training, when it comes to objection handling: what are the consequences if you don't make this purchase? It's one of those things I believe our advisors rebel against, because everybody is so focused on CSI. We talked to Brad recently, and Brad was talking about how you can perform better and have great CSI.

I truly believe that if I'm educating you and letting you know, "Hey Dave, if you wait until 100,000 miles to replace your spark plugs, the consequence could be that you need a catalytic converter way earlier than you normally would," I'm educating you. What are the chances our advisors are going to take that step? And then bring it all the way back to an oil change. It's bad enough to talk about the consequences for an engine or a catalytic converter that costs thousands of dollars. But if I've got to talk to you about the consequences of not changing your oil every 5,000 miles, I don't see a lot of advisors out there willing to make that investment in themselves and in their customer: talking about the consequences and the reasons for doing more than the manufacturer's maintenance schedule. Giving my car the best care I possibly can, is what we'd say. There aren't a lot of advisors who really want to go down that path.

Dave Rogers: Yeah, and I don't understand it. It probably goes back to training, right? Shock, shock. But I think there's a gap between knowing cars, having a logical, mechanical brain, and not. I was fortunate in the way I think. Maybe it was starting as a tech, but I was always a student of the game. Even when I wasn't a tech anymore and I was an advisor, I would read the repair orders. I'd talk to the technicians and pick their brains. A lot of this stuff is just logic. But if you're not exposed to it, you're not trained on it, or maybe you're not interested in it. There are a lot of advisors who probably aren't car people. They're not car guys or girls.

It needs to be packaged up and phrased in a way your customer understands. If you eat fruits and vegetables and whole foods, you probably have a better chance of being healthy when you get older than if you're popping gumdrops, candy, chocolate bars and Big Macs all the time. We can all talk that way, and sometimes it's a challenge for people when it comes to cars. But I think it's important that they learn.

And it starts up front too. That'd be my message for a general manager: have your salespeople learn some of the maintenance. I know we usually save that for the end, but I think everybody in a dealership should be a student of the game, and not just a Google person. Learn what these cars need. Learn what the best care is. Learn what the best mechanics in your shop would recommend. What would they do with their own cars? That's always a great source of information. I've had these conversations with advisors who go, "Yeah, the factory says," and then you bring one of your techs up and go, "Hey, when do you change the oil in your car?" "Every three, four months." "Really? Then why are we telling customers to wait until the light comes on?" "Well, that's them. I would never do that to my car. That's neglect." They always tell you the same thing.

Steve Shaw: Exactly. And think about it: at the dealership, let's say we're charging $100, $200 an hour to take care of somebody's biggest or second-biggest investment in life. I believe the job of an advisor is incredibly serious. It's a great way to make a living, certainly, but the responsibility we advisors have sometimes gets lost. We're taking care of somebody's biggest or second-biggest investment, and we're treating it like a throwaway computer. I'll pay $100 an hour to have somebody work on my computer or have the plumber come to my house. But sometimes we're not taking it seriously enough. I'm not trying to beat anybody up, but I think sometimes we don't recognize the importance of our job, and the importance of sharing those consequences, the "what happens if," with our customer. Fundamentally, deep in my heart, I believe the primary job of the advisor is to educate that customer on the what-ifs.

Liability, and the red stamp 17:10

Dave Rogers: I agree. We've all heard the cases of the car leaving the shop with a bubble in the tire, and nobody telling the customer. The car flips. The Firestone tire fiasco back in the early 2000s. You've heard of these where the dealership is held liable. The technician could be personally held liable, although that generally isn't going to happen, because they're looking for deep pockets. But we've all seen it where you just don't mention it to the customer. Warranty is a perfect example. We don't pay any attention to the three C's and making sure the notes are in there until there's an audit, and then all of a sudden everyone snaps to attention. So you try to use your experience in life to tell people.

Your Ford story, with the Ford diesel pickup and the air filter, is another perfect example. We didn't recommend it, the guy needs an engine, and the factory wants to hold the dealership responsible because we didn't tell him. So I think there's a happy medium. You don't want to be like the old-school guys when I first started in the business. My boss had a rubber stamp, a red stamp. I'd say, "Steve, your car is due for its 15,000-mile service," and you'd say, "I just want the oil change today." And I'd reach over, take that stamp and put it on the RO: "Customer declined factory maintenance." I always thought that was kind of rude, but those were the rules in that place. And it got the point across sometimes. People would go, "What the hell's that? Why is that on my RO?" And then they'd change their mind and get the service. I didn't do a good enough job convincing them, so the red stamp did.

Steve Shaw: Hey, in today's day and age, I'd get behind that. We used to talk about Pass or Fail, and we'd write "fails inspection" in big red letters on the multi-point back then, because we wanted to create that urgency. It is a litigious society. My job, as well as selling and making lots of money, is to protect the dealer from ourselves. So we do have to make sure we do those things. If somebody told me they were putting a stamp on an RO that said "customer declined factory maintenance," I promise you I'd walk up, give them a big hug and say, "You go." I haven't seen that in a long, long time.

My brother, we should get him on to talk about this, has a Dodge Charger too. He'd been taking it into the same dealership over and over for service. Then he moved up here near where I live, and I took it in for him to one of my stores. They did the multi-point, and what did they say? "Hey, you need tires." He's like, "Tires?" And I said, "Yeah, it doesn't look like there's ever been an alignment." We did some research and looked at all his ROs. He never had an alignment, and I don't think he was being rotated properly. So at 30,000 miles, he's got to replace his tires. Basically everything you and I talk about played out right in front of me, because nobody at that dealership presented, "Hey, you've got to rotate your tires with your oil change." Nobody presented an alignment. So he's out $800, $1,000. He probably tells the story much better than I do. But that happens. I'm Steve Shaw and I'm in the dealership, so I can smooth things over. But how many customers have come through your drive, or other drives, where we did that, the guy got mad, drove away and never came back?

Dave Rogers: Yeah, there's no way to know. The funny thing I laugh at is that I work for the company. I bring my car into one of my stores and ask them to do things, and they basically say no. And I'm like, "You don't understand. I'm not a bazillionaire. That's not the point here." The book says coolant change at 100 or 120. Change it now. Just be done with it. It's going to be negative seven degrees one day, and I don't want to deal with a frozen block. I don't believe the book.

How the maintenance books changed 21:28

Dave Rogers: When I first started in this business in the eighties, everything had conventional oil, and every car manufacturer said the same thing: 7,500 miles for the oil change, and you could change the filter every other visit. That's what it said in the books. It was bizarre. Nobody ever did that. You'd never change the oil and not the filter. What most people in the business, and even people outside the business, did was bring their car in every three or four months, at 3,750, to change the oil and filter. That's just what they did. We used to lube all the little pivot points with white grease. We used to rotate the tires every other visit. That was the maintenance in the eighties and the nineties.

Somewhere around 2003, 2005, these manufacturers decided they were going to fight for Consumer Reports and some of this stuff. Toyota is the best example. They changed their books to 5,000 miles for oil change and tire rotation, bringing people back in twice a year, which we were okay with. They were using 0W-20 synthetic or semi-synthetic oil at the time, so we figured a little better oil doesn't have to be changed so often. And then as soon as they started paying for those oil changes in 2010, guess what happened? The interval went from 5,000 to 10,000. The same oil, the same everything.

Steve Shaw: Exactly. And as you alluded to, now I'm going to take that car in on trade. That 36-month lease vehicle, or the 50,000-mile vehicle somebody neglected, and then we're going to put a warranty on top of it, or maybe we're responsible for the warranty for a short period. And now the dealer's got to pay for an engine or that repair.

The sales-to-service handoff, and a GM tip 23:30

Steve Shaw: I get why the salesperson doesn't bring it up. If we were selling cars, would we tell everybody all the bad things? So I get why they're not doing it. But on the sales-to-service handoff, I think that's why it's so powerful. It's also one of the least exercised processes, where that customer is introduced to service, gets the five- or 10-minute introduction to a service advisor and gets to learn about their car. How powerful is that? And so many dealers aren't doing it anymore.

Dave Rogers: No, it's the path of least resistance. That's really what it is. And I don't think it has to be a negative. When you sell somebody a car, they're in their glory. It's a happy time. It's all positive. It's a great time. You can sell them all-weather floor mats because they want to protect their new car. You can talk to them about maintaining the car. It doesn't have to be a long discussion. Hand them a menu and say, "Listen, this is the maintenance schedule we recommend as a dealership. I'm not an expert at servicing cars, but this is what my guys in the back tell me you should do to keep this thing tip-top and at the highest resale value." It doesn't have to be more than that. You don't have to get in the dirt and make the guy squeamish.

That's a whole other topic. One day I'd like to talk to these owners about reinsurance and their extended warranties. "Let's neglect the car for three years, and then beg to buy it back so I can insure it myself." Think about that whole thing. But honestly, if we're being honest with ourselves, we're taking the path of least resistance, we're not doing what we should be doing, and we're not giving people the right advice, because it's really bad advice.

Steve Shaw: Absolutely. Well, we've gone way long today, so I think that's a good place to circle back and talk to your GMs. I actually had one of my trainers call me today and say, "Hey, we watched your Express video," so I think some of the messages are getting through. And the feedback I've gotten from a few of my GM friends is that they like your tips of the day. So summarize what we talked about. How could this apply to a general manager, and how could they use it in their stores?

Dave Rogers: The general manager is responsible for the whole store. Your comfort zone might be in sales, it might be in F&I, it might be used cars. But you want to bring the whole thing into the picture. You don't have to be an expert in service, but lean on your service manager, make sure there's a menu back there, and make sure you understand it a little bit. Then it's as simple as having a salesperson hand it to the customer after they come out of finance. The finance guy probably talked to them about some kind of maintenance package anyway. Whether they sold it or not, it's still, "Hey, this is our maintenance book. This is what we believe in to keep your car in the best condition." They're happy at that point. Like I said, you could sell them all-weather mats at that point.

I think it goes a long way, letting people know two things. One: I'm looking out for you. I want to protect your investment. Two: we want your business. There are a lot of people who mention the words "oil change" and go, "Oh, just an oil change." It's degrading. No, we want to do your oil change. We value your business. And that's the message for any GM: you're in charge of the whole business. Don't forget about the service department while you're selling the car.

Steve Shaw: Absolutely. That goes back to almost every episode, whether we're talking training, strategy or long-term vision for your store. We have to manage daily, but we've got to be looking long-term, looking out for the best interest of our organization, which is keeping those customers a long time and getting those great-value trades in. Not only does it give us a great trade, but think of all the income from the extra maintenance we're doing. Great stuff. But we definitely should get into the lack of maintenance, buying those types of cars, and the reinsurance side of it, because that's what's going to get somebody's attention.

Dave Rogers: I want to get Bryan on. We've got to get him on there too.

Steve Shaw: Let's get Bryan on. My brother Bryan does a great job. There's nobody better at ranting than my rock-and-roll brother. So we'll see if we can get him on our next episode. Appreciate the conversation, Dave.

Dave Rogers: All right, talk to you later, Steve.